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Learning skills: the end is near, at last!

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Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.09.30 20:34:00 - [1] Why not just get rid of all level V skills also. They take way too long to train and don't really add anything to your character except making the old timers have a one up on newbs. Probably level IV skills should also be removed or the time it takes to train them greatly reduced. (like from 3 days to 3 hours or even 3 minutes) All the level IV skills do is give old timers a one up on newbs. Newbs have already taken the time to train to level III so they should be able to compete. I guarantee that Eve's subscribers numbers would triple overnight if these changes are implemented. Arie
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.01 03:13:00 - [2] Quote: another patch, another opportunity to remove them missed Perhaps that means you lose at Eve yet again? Eve's been around for over 7 years. They must have done something right. Eve is by all means a niche game compared to Farmville and Wow and similar games. It caters (or catered) to the niche crowd it was designed for, learning skills included. The mind set behind such a tragic waste of time that you super gamers decry can be a bit difficult to understand. Sort of like the difference between driving through the countryside versus walking thru it. Now that Wow is clearly becoming a tottering giant we have the the level 80 in 2 weeks crowd milling about, restless and bored and as annoyingly noisy as ever. The very same mind set that has been repeated in every mmorpg since EQ1 is now here in Eve. "I want to get to the end of the game NOW!" In the old days posts like this would have been laughed at and fogotten in short order. Whatever happens I've had great fun in this game for several years just the way it is.
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.01 23:16:00 - [3] Edited by: Arakash Mond on 01/10/2010 23:19:06 Quote: After this happens, if it really makes Eve as unplayable as you think, you can go make a thread about how you are leaving Eve. Or we could live in reality and have the learning skill haters start putting their money where their mouths are and start making posts as to why they're quitting eve because learning skills make it so unplayable.
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.01 23:34:00 - [4] Edited by: Arakash Mond on 01/10/2010 23:35:49 Quote: But none of us think that. Then what are you complaining about? Quote: I noticed you avoided quoting this part of what I said: Now, I really challenge anyone to make an argument to add learning skills as if they were never introduced. Wouldn't that sort of be like arguing why isn't the king the most pwerful piece on the chessboard rather than the queen? I think what bugs me the most about you learning skill haters is the inherent deceit in your complaints. Bottom line is you have a problem with how long it takes to train skills period. You just perceive learning skills as more vulnerable to attack than say all level 5 skills. If you would simply say it takes too long to skill up it would make it alot easier to have a rational argument with you. Because what you are really complaining about are the inherent basics of the game.
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.01 23:48:00 - [5] Quote: I think removing learning skills would be acceptable if you also removed the benefits you get from training them. If learning skills go then so do those extra 10 attribute points. That's my argument right there. If you get rid of the skills you should get rid of the benefits they provide also. It's only logical. So to keep those extra attribute points we ought to keep the skill training that provides them.
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.02 01:38:00 - [6] If you remove learning skills how will new players get those extra attribute points?
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.02 01:48:00 - [7] Quote: If the change happened everyone who didn't already would get +10, everyone who trained them already gets a nice SP refund. Win/Win So what you are really asking for is to be given 10 free attribute points (50 free attribute points all together)? Is that what you are saying?
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.02 02:00:00 - [8] Quote: So what you are really asking for is to be given 10 free attribute points (50 free attribute points all together)? Is that what you are saying? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Short answer, yes. Longer answer, We're asking for an obviously outdated mechanic to be purged, and the people who painstakingly wasted their time to be compensated. Ok I understand. You want all characters at creation to have 19 in each attribute. I don't see the obviousness in it being outdated though. What made learning skills relevant in 2003 that makes them irrelevant now?
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.04 18:06:00 - [9] Quote: The cacophonous whining of spoiled bittervets will keep this game in a vice grip of top-heaviness and stagnation until the server cluster shuts down. It's only a question of when, and at this point everyone's energy is wasted discussing any one of these issues... because chances are, none of them will be addressed. Even if one or two of them are, it will only extend the game's lifespan by a year at the outside. Eve is dying Quote: Most of the people arguing against it didn't take the time to read the op. If CCP did everything the op said why would we need to remove learning skills?
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.04 18:38:00 - [10] Quote: Now, I really challenge anyone to make an argument to add learning skills as if they were never introduced. This is what you asked and I answered your question. If learning skills were never introduced there would have been no way to up your attributes 50 points and +10% faster training time. Therefore learning skills were added. I think what you are saying is CCP should have just started all characters out with 19 in each attribute. Bottom line is learning skills are the straw man in arguments used by those who think skill training takes too long. Skill training time should be what your argument is about. Sorry Orange for the eve is dying bit but I almost felt your tears in that last post. I should have been more sympathetic.

Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.10.04 19:50:00 - [11] Edited by: Arakash Mond on 04/10/2010 19:55:26 Edited by: Arakash Mond on 04/10/2010 19:51:38 Edited by: Arakash Mond on 04/10/2010 19:51:08 Quote: You only said what happened, you still have not made any sort of argument (in the case that they never existed) for why learning skills should be added. The following is a hypothetical conversation to support the creation of learning skills. All the names used have no relation to anyone living or dead. Reynir: "Whew, finally were finished with the game!" Ivan: "You know some of the gamers we're trying to attract are pretty used to insta gratification type games. They may blanche at the length of time some of the skill training takes." Thorolfur: "Perhaps we are better off without those types of gamers. They tend to make long posts in the public forums complaining about how long it takes to do anything in any game. Except for WoW of course." Reynir: "No,no we need their money too. I have a great idea for a first person shooter just for them in the future, for now let's compromise. Let's give those who want a chance to decrease ther skill training time a way to do so by adding learning skills. It's a compromise see." Thorlfur: "You know if you do that people will use that against you and say that fundamentally skill training takes too long. Why else would we allow them this shortcut?" Reynir: "People won't do that. They will appreciate that it takes a bit of planning and effort and time to create a character in this game. And that there are consequences for their actions or inactions. People don't want cookie cutter characters." The room goes quiet. Then everyone begins to laugh even Reynir, when he realizes the joke he has made

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